[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [TRNSYS-users] minmassflowrate

Hello,

I did what you described and simplified that problem to its core.

Please have a look at it again

thanks,

Michael

Am 19.06.2012 20:37, schrieb David BRADLEY:
Michael,
  I have run into this problem as well, particularly in Trnsys16 and I was not ever able to resolve it. In the end, I had to increase my flowrate through the floor enough (or segment the floor enough) so that the flow rate I was giving got above that threshold. My suspicion is that Type56 calculates the required minimum flow at one temperature and then corrects the actual flowrate for some temperature dependent property during the simulation. If your example is simple enough and you are willing, please send it our way so that we can try and track down the cause!
Best,
 david


On 6/18/2012 16:24, Michael Döbele wrote:
Dear TRNSSYS User,

i am trying to run an active layer with an specific massflow rate of 15 kg/h m² (absolute value 654.15 kg/h). TRNBuild calculates a minimum allowed massflow rate of 10.25 kg/h. (446 kg/h) ....so far so good.
But when I set this massflow rate in TRNSYS Studio via Input to the wanted 654.15 kg/h  I get following error

"specific fluid mass flow of active layer in surface 2 below minimum
value of16.26/m2h, increase the minimum mass flow rate or use
autosegmentation feature of TRNBuild for subdividing the surface."

This is a really strange behavior. The massflow criteria varies and seems to depend on the inlet temperature.. I also tried autosegmentation - I didn´t help, I got the same error message.
Please help me out here..

Thank you

Michael Döbele 



_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users


-- 
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI  53703 USA

P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
d.bradley@tess-inc.com

http://www.tess-inc.com
http://www.trnsys.com
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
*  TRNBuild   2.0.167
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
*   BUILDING DESCRIPTIONS FILE TRNSYS
*   FOR BUILDING:   E:\01 Thesis\07 minimal example\DCK4_20120615.b17
*   GET BY WORKING WITH TRNBuild 1.0 for Windows
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  C o m m e n t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  P r o j e c t
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*+++ PROJECT
*+++ TITLE=TYPRAUM FÜR UBB VERFAHREN IN TRNSYS
*+++ DESCRIPTION=ERSTELLUNG EINES GEBÄUDEMODELLS FÜR BELIEBIGE BÜROGEBÄUDE
*+++ CREATED=MICHAEL DÖBELE MIT OPENOFFICECALC
*+++ ADDRESS=UNDEFINED
*+++ CITY=88400 BIBERACH
*+++ SWITCH=UNDEFINED
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  P r o p e r t i e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROPERTIES
 DENSITY=1.204 : CAPACITY=1.012 : PRESSURE=101325.000 : HVAPOR=2454.0 : SIGMA=2.041e-007 : RTEMP=293.15
*--- alpha calculation -------------------
 KFLOORUP=7.2 : EFLOORUP=0.31 : KFLOORDOWN=3.888 : EFLOORDOWN=0.31
 KCEILUP=7.2 : ECEILUP=0.31 : KCEILDOWN=3.888 : ECEILDOWN=0.31
 KVERTICAL=5.76 : EVERTICAL=0.3
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  L a y e r s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAYER TABS1
 PSPACING=   0.15 : PDIAMETER=  0.022 : PWALLTHICKNESS= 0.0023 : PCONDUCTIVITY=   1.44 : CPFLUID= 4.18
LAYER BE_NORMALBETON_21
 CONDUCTIVITY=   7.56 : CAPACITY=      1 : DENSITY=   2100
LAYER SO_TEPPICH
 CONDUCTIVITY=  0.198 : CAPACITY=    1.3 : DENSITY=    200
LAYER SO_EINFACHGLAS
 CONDUCTIVITY=   5.04 : CAPACITY=   0.75 : DENSITY=   2200
LAYER WD_FIBER_ISULATING
 CONDUCTIVITY=   0.18 : CAPACITY=    1.4 : DENSITY=    250
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  I n p u t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INPUTS Z01_TABS_TETA_SW Z01_TABS_MASSFLOW Z01_QGAIN Z02_TABS_TETA_SW Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  S c h e d u l e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  W a l l s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WALL ID01
 LAYERS   = BE_NORMALBETON_21 TABS1 BE_NORMALBETON_21 SO_TEPPICH 
 THICKNESS= 0.175             0     0.175             0.005      
 ABS-FRONT= 0.6   : ABS-BACK= 0.6  
 EPS-FRONT= 0.9   : EPS-BACK= 0.9  
 HFRONT   = CEILING : HBACK= FLOOR
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  W i n d o w s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  D e f a u l t  G a i n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  O t h e r  G a i n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  C o m f o r t
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  I n f i l t r a t i o n
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  V e n t i l a t i o n
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  C o o l i n g
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  H e a t i n g
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  Z o n e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONES Z01 Z02
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  O r i e n t a t i o n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIENTATIONS
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
BUILDING
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  Z o n e  Z01  /  A i r n o d e  Z01
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE Z01
RADIATIONMODE
 BEAM=STANDARD : DIFFUSE=STANDARD : LONGWAVE=STANDARD : GEOMODE=MANUAL
AIRNODE Z01
WALL  =ID01       : SURF=  1 : AREA=     43.61 : ADJACENT=Z01 : ADJ_SURF=2 : FRONT : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z01_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z01_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
WALL  =ID01       : SURF=  2 : AREA=     43.61 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=1 : BACK : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
 REGIME
 CAPACITANCE = 233.77  : VOLUME= 194.81  : TINITIAL= 0       : PHINITIAL= 50      : WCAPR= 1
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  Z o n e  Z02  /  A i r n o d e  Z02
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE Z02
RADIATIONMODE
 BEAM=STANDARD : DIFFUSE=STANDARD : LONGWAVE=STANDARD : GEOMODE=MANUAL
AIRNODE Z02
WALL  =ID01       : SURF=  3 : AREA=     44.87 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=4 : FRONT : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
WALL  =ID01       : SURF=  4 : AREA=     44.87 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=3 : BACK : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
 REGIME
 CAPACITANCE = 233.77  : VOLUME= 194.81  : TINITIAL= 0       : PHINITIAL= 50      : WCAPR= 1
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  O u t p u t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OUTPUTS
 TRANSFER : TIMEBASE=1.000
 AIRNODES = Z01 
 NTYPES =  75 : QTSABS - total solar radiation absorbed at all inside surfaces of airnode
        =  25 : TOP - obsolete use new comfort outputs (Version 16: Operative temperature)
 AIRNODES = Z02 
 NTYPES =  75 : QTSABS - total solar radiation absorbed at all inside surfaces of airnode
        =  25 : TOP - obsolete use new comfort outputs (Version 16: Operative temperature)
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  T R N S F L O W Multizone Airflow Network (Model COMIS 3.1)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MULTIZONE_AIRFLOW_NETWORK
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
CALCFLOWS=0
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  A d d  T R N S F L O W  C o m m a n d s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
POLLUTANTS
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LINKTYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  C r a c k s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  F a n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  S t r a i g h t   D u c t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  F l o w   C o n t r o l l e r s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  L a r g e    V e r t i c a l   Openings (Windows+Doors)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  T e s t   D a t a   C o m p o n e n t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NODETYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  E x t e r n a l   N o d e s  (CP VALUES)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  A u x i l i a r y   N o d e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  T h e r m a l  Z o n e   N o d e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  W i n d   v e  l o c i t y   p r o f i l e
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WIND_VELOPROF
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  A i r l i n k   N e t w o r k
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AIRLINK_NETWORK
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  E n d
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
END

_EXTENSION_WINPOOL_START_
*** END OF LIBRARY ***
***************************************************************************************************
*WinID   Description                              Design         U-Value g-value T-sol Rf-sol T-vis
***************************************************************************************************
_EXTENSION_WINPOOL_END_

_EXTENSION_BuildingGeometry_START_

_EXTENSION_BuildingGeometry_END_


_EXTENSION_ExternalShadingGeometry_START_

_EXTENSION_ExternalShadingGeometry_END_


_EXTENSION_GeoPositionGeometry_START_
_EXTENSION_GeoPositionGeometry_END_

Attachment: problem active layer.tpf
Description: Binary data