Re: [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition

Dear Marion, David, Christoph

Thank you very much for your help!

It seems to me that Marion tip is important: internal, solar and longwave heat gains could imply the results which was strange for us (temperature on outside surface of TABS higher then air temperature in zone and water temperature).

If we found something new then we will write!

Regards,
Karol

From: Marion Hiller [mailto:Hiller@Transsolar.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 2:56 PM
To: TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition - strange results

Dear Karol,

Keep in mind that boundary identical means that the backside gets the same heat flux (absorbed solar + internal gains + longwave exchange from surfaces) as the front side of the surface!

In your email you mentioned temperatures only, but you did say anything about the heat fluxes.

I suspect that the heat flux causes the temperature increase.

Kind regards,

Marion

From: TRNSYS-users [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Karol BANDURSKI via TRNSYS-users
Sent: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2018 12:30
To: hotline <hotline@Transsolar.com>; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org' <trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org>; trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Cc: Karol BANDURSKI <karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl>; katarzyna.palaszynska@put.poznan.pl
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition - strange results

Dear Christoph,

Thank you for response!

But we need to be more clear:

When we set:

boundary conditions = IDENTICAL
AIR temperature in zone is about 24 C
Temperature of inlet water (active layer) is about 18 C (and outlet almost 19 C)
Convective heat transfer coefficient on back surface is set FLOOR

Then temperature on back surface is about 26 C. In other words Tso is higher than Tsi and water temperature, while there is no internal heat gains. Why?

Kind regards,

Karol

From: hotline [mailto:hotline@Transsolar.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 12:02 PM
To: TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org <trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org>; trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Cc: Karol Bandurski <karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl>; katarzyna.palaszynska@put.poznan.pl
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition - strange results

Dear Karol and Katarzyna,

If boundary conditions = IDENTICAL, the surface temperatures of the active wall Tsi and Tso will only be identical, if:

Wall construction is symmetrical
Convective heat transfer coefficients (front and back) are the same

Best
Christoph Stetter

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Christoph Stetter M.Eng.

Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH

Curiestraße 2

70563 Stuttgart

http://www.transsolar.com

Transsolar: KlimaEngineering- Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden

Stuttgart – München – New York – Paris

Geschäftsführer :Diplom-Ingenieur Matthias Schuler, Diplom-Ingenieur Thomas Auer, Diplom-Physiker Stefan Holst, Diplom-Betriebswirt Dieter Schnelle

Eingetragen beim Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347,

Steuernummer: 99073/00911,USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639

Von: TRNSYS-users [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] Im Auftrag von Karol Bandurski via TRNSYS-users
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2018 12:44
An: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Cc: Karol Bandurski <karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl>
Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] Active layer/boundary condition - strange results

Dear Users and Developers,

We would like to model active layer as component of TABS.

Now our model is one zone with active layer in ceiling. Adiabatic condition/IDENTICAL for all internal partition and set. We have one external wall.

We would like to keep neighborhood zones in the same AIR temperature. But when we set boundary condition to IDENTICAL over TABS, then outer surface of this partition has higher temperature then indoor air temperature and active layer water temperature… -Why?

The situation is better if we set convective heat transfer coefficient, on outer surface of TABS to 0.001. If we understand, it is mean direct contact between air and surface. So if there are adiabatic/identical condition: outer SURFACE temperature of TABS has the same temperature as AIR inside modelled zone. But our aim is to keep identical inside and outside AIR temperature, not SURFACE temperature… How we can do it?

Kind regards,
Karol

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Karol BANDURSKI M. Sc.

Faculty of Civil and Environemntal Engeneering

Division of Heating, Air Conditioning and Air Protection

Poznan University of Technology

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski