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David,
I exactly followed the tutorial. Thanks for that. But
unfortunetaly I can´t see a controlled roomtemperature!! Also in
the already existing example "HVAC-Building" that is using
Type108, I cant see a controlled roomtemperature (20°C). Where´s
the mistake since i haven´t changed anything in the example? When
I was plotting the the Indoor temperature TaBack, I was expecting
a almost constant temperature but not a temperature fluctuating
between -8 and 8°C.
Best,
Michael
Am 22.10.2012 23:15, schrieb David BRADLEY:
Michael,
well fundamentally, a furnace heats air and I think the heat
pump you were talking about heats water that then goes to a
radiator, correct? If so, then the furnace would be connected to
Type56 by means of a VENTILATION type in TRNBuild/Type56.
Best,
David
On 10/22/2012 10:09, Michael
Diekerhof wrote:
David,
thanks a lot. I´ll try to figure that out. Just a short
question before starting: In case I dont use a storage, the
type 121a (Furnace) will be replaced with my heat pump type,
right ?? If I use a storage tank, this one will replace my
type121, won´t it ?
Michael
Am 22.10.2012 16:53, schrieb David BRADLEY:
Michael,
The HEATING and COOLING types that are built into TRNBuild
and Type56 are primarily used for computing the idealized
heating and cooling loads of the space. Those loads can then
be imposed on a system but the performance of the system is
then dependent only on that load, not on the delivery
temperature or the room temperature. This method of
calculating system energy use is called Energy Rate Control.
What you are aiming for in your simulation is something called
Temperature Level Control where a themostat senses room
temperatures and sends control signals to equipment. The
equipment provides flows of hot or cold water and air to the
delivery devices and the room temperatures react accordingly.
The Type56 model is computing an energy balance on the space
that reacts to the delivery devices. You need to get away from
using the built-in idealized HEATING inputs and towards
defining the ventilation streams, active layers, and energy
gains that will cause the space temperature to go up or down.
There is a tutorial available that will step you through the
basic process of migrating from Energy Rate Control to
Temperature Level Control. Even though it does not directly
apply to your radiator system, I think it will help your
understanding of the underlying concepts.
http://sel.me.wisc.edu/trnsys/downloads/tutorials_and_examples/tlc_tutorial17.pdf
Best,
David
On 10/20/2012 08:43, Michael
Diekerhof wrote:
David,
Unfortunetaly I don´t have access to the TESS library. I´m
sorry but I dont understand what you were meaning with: "If
you do not, then I would imagine that you might be able
to come up with a simplified set of equations that would
give you the gains to the space that you need. "
Do you mean that I use the GAINS to adjust the radiative
and convective part ? But how to take the room temperature
into account by also considering the outlet temperature
out of my storage ?? Isn´t there also a way to work with
HEATING INPUTS ?! I still dont have an idea how to cover
my heat demand by using the outlet temperature :(
Best,
Michael
Am 19.10.2012 20:15, schrieb David BRADLEY:
Michael,
Ideally, you need a radiator model that will deal with
the water side, take room temperature from Type56 and
output the convective and radiative gains to the space as
outputs. Such a model exists in the TESS HVAC library for
Trnsys17 if you have access to it (Type1231). If you do
not, then I would imagine that you might be able to come
up with a simplified set of equations that would give you
the gains to the space that you need.
Best,
David
On 10/18/2012 09:24, Michael Diekerhof wrote:
David,
thanks a lot. I´ll have a look.
Could you please help me in another case. My plan is to
connect the HP to a storage tank and then giving a
temperature from the storage (type4) to my type56... How
can I realize that my type 56 can be heated to achieve a
constant room temperature of e.g. 20°C ?!
Someone told me that I must use HEATING and then
INPUT... but what if i would like to simulate a simple
radiator with a simple inlet temperature of e.g. 55°C.
Do you understand my problem? I dont know how to cover
my heat demand out of the storage.
Thanks in advance
Best,
Michael
Am 18.10.2012 16:16, schrieb David BRADLEY:
Michael,
I would recommend that you look online at
manufacturer's sites for similarly sized heat pumps.
Trane and Carrier both have significant amounts of
performance data in the product literature parts of
their sites. You can probably get a good estimate of
the flow rates on both the condenser and evaporator
sizes from them.
Best,
david
On 10/18/2012 03:53, Michael Diekerhof wrote:
Dear all,
I´m working with the heat pump non-standard type 401
and try to display an air-source heat pump.
I dont have typical values for the Input 2
(evaporator mass flowrate) and Input 4 (condenser
mass flowrate).
The only real connection I´m using is the dry bulb
temp, coming from type 15, as the evaporator inlet
temperature. For the massflowrates I would like to
assume constant values.
How can I adjust an outlet condenser temperature of
e.g. 55°C. Just about the massflowrates ?!
Does anyone have experience with heat pump mass flow
rates?! I guess it´s not necessary to have
expieriences with Type 401.
I´m thankful for any advices.
Best,
Michael
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
Am 18.10.2012 16:16, schrieb David BRADLEY:
Michael,
I would recommend that you look online at
manufacturer's sites for similarly sized heat pumps.
Trane and Carrier both have significant amounts of
performance data in the product literature parts of
their sites. You can probably get a good estimate of
the flow rates on both the condenser and evaporator
sizes from them.
Best,
david
On 10/18/2012 03:53, Michael Diekerhof wrote:
Dear all,
I´m working with the heat pump non-standard type 401
and try to display an air-source heat pump.
I dont have typical values for the Input 2
(evaporator mass flowrate) and Input 4 (condenser
mass flowrate).
The only real connection I´m using is the dry bulb
temp, coming from type 15, as the evaporator inlet
temperature. For the massflowrates I would like to
assume constant values.
How can I adjust an outlet condenser temperature of
e.g. 55°C. Just about the massflowrates ?!
Does anyone have experience with heat pump mass flow
rates?! I guess it´s not necessary to have
expieriences with Type 401.
I´m thankful for any advices.
Best,
Michael
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
d.bradley@tess-inc.com
http://www.tess-inc.com
http://www.trnsys.com
--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
d.bradley@tess-inc.com
http://www.tess-inc.com
http://www.trnsys.com
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