Many thanks for your quick reply! Did you put a lower ACH for the simulation already? After that, the cooling system works fine? I did. I set the ACH from 2.0 to 0.5 1/h, however, Qcool is still 0, in addition, Tair_room in summer is up to 33/34 °C. It means the cooling system is still not working after reducing the ACH of ventilation system.
So I think it is not reason of ventilation system. I guess there is something wrong with the cooling system in TRNSYS. But I still can't find the solution. Please give us some suggestions for that! I don't know why there are so many bugs or problems in TRNSYS although it has been a mature BES tool.
Airchange of ventilation :
2.75 Vol/h when your building is used
Temperature : 17 °C in
summer
With 2.75 Vol/h at 17°C in your
thermal zone, this is normal that Qcool is equal to 0 since your
air is only refreshed by your ventilation system! Your cooling
system is not used!
Try to put a lower airflowrate, you will see that cooling system
is then used and works fine.
Afin de
contribuer au respect de l'environnement, merci de n'imprimer
cet e-mail que si nécessaire
Please, consider
our environmental responsability before printing this email
Le 18/06/2012 12:40, 王洋 a écrit :
Dear Mr. Adrien,
Many thanks for your patient and careful answers!
You are right!
Set point for cooling is 26°C in your model.
The problem comes from your ventilation system : Temperature of
air flow = 17°C in summer. So your ventilation system cools your
thermal zone.. Your cooling system
is then shunted since Tair < 26°C, that's why you obtain
QCool = 0. i advice you to adjust your air flow temperature.
Due to the lower set temperature of ventilation in summer, the
Qcool = 0. Since 17 °C is our design standard, so generally it
can't be adjusted. In addition, I found there is another Weird
phenomenon about Qcool and Tcool. I adjust Tcool based on your
suggestion and Equation (Tcool =
35 - 9 * Summer ). I change it into e.g. Tcool = 35 - 8/10/11.../25 * Summer
etc., but Tcool doesn't work i.e. Tair_room is
keeping the same temperature (please see the 1st attached on line
plotter) in all the set point Tcool situatuins (27/25/24.../10
°C), therefore, Qcool is 0 all the time. I checked and adjusted
many times for this simulation. It also exists this problem. It
made me drive the nuts.
If you are free, please help me have a look the program and give
me some solutions or advices. Pleasae see the 2nd and 3rd
attached.
Many thanks in advance! I'm very appreciated for all your help!
Afin de
contribuer au respect de l'environnement, merci de
n'imprimer cet e-mail que si nécessaire
Please,
consider our environmental responsability before
printing this email
Le 13/06/2012 12:58, 王洋 a écrit :
Dear Adrien
JEZEQUEL,
Many thanks for your patient reply and checking for my
programs.
You are right. The problem is indeed Internal Gains. I
define a Schedule based on your advice. After running,
it seems better than the previous. However, there are
some unreasonable situations. Please see the Attached
image.
1. Tair and Top are higher than the set point 21 °C in
winter all the time. Tair is closed to 23 °C
basically, and it is only 21 °C when no occupancy. I
guess the reason is the compensation of internal gains
and mechanical ventilation.
In winter your Tair is equal at least
at Tset heat (21°C in your model). Temperatures grow up
due to solar and internal heat gains, that's why you
obtain Tair > 21°C in winter.
Do you have some
solutions to make sure that the set point is 21 °C in
winter?
check Tair without internal heat gain
and solar gain to be sure that your thermal zone is heated
at 21°C.
2.Tair and Top are lower than the set point 26 °C in
summer all the time. The maximal is only 25.4 °C. I
guess the reason is due to the influence of mechanical
ventilation, and only a few hot days (Toutdoor>26
°C) in summer.
I would like to ensure that the set point is 26 °C in
summer. Do you have some solutions to that problem?
Only reduce air change rate of mechanical ventilation?
Anything else?
Set point for cooling is 26°C in your
model. The problem comes from your ventilation system :
Temperature of air flow = 17°C in summer. So your
ventilation system cools your thermal zone.. Your cooling system is then shunted
since Tair < 26°C, that's why you obtain QCool = 0. i
advice you to adjust your air flow temperature.
3.Qinf and Qvent are different all over the year
although the infiltration rate and ventilation rate
settings are the same all over the year. I think Since
the weather conditions especially outdoor temperature,
wind direction and wind velocity are different all
over the year. Am I right?
Yes, you are right. But it's very
difficult to take into account accuracy airflows due to
infiltration rate, since this is generaly due in one hand
to imperfections and in other hand, as you say, to local
situation : you have to estimate wind velocity and
direction near your building, then, calculate pressure
coefficient on each elements of your facade, and then
approach your infiltration rate with a law like m' = C.dp.n.
You may find some litteratures from Martin Liddament but
in first approximation, I advice you to take a constant
value equal to 1/20eme airflowrate obtain under 50Pa which
seems to be perfect for energy studies.
4. Based on Energy_zone.BAL file, Qcool is 0 all the
time. Do you have some ideas? I think it is due to
mechanical ventilation and only a few hot days
(Toutdoor>26 °C) in summer. Anything else reasons?
You are right : the Tcool I gave you was equal
to 26, not to 24°C. Tset value is not
important as well, the most important is that
you understand how to do to define Tset.
In your model, your heating and cooling
advices seem to work fine. Your problem comes
frome your internal gain : 31 people are
defined all the time in a room of
approximatively 80 m², without schedule.
Because of your important internal gains, air
temperature increases until 35°C in winter.
Then air temperature is refreshed because
Tcool = 35°C in winter.
In summer, air is cooled at 24°C, because this
is the temperature you define in your cooling
advice.
Afin de contribuer au respect
de l'environnement, merci de n'imprimer
cet e-mail que si nécessaire
Please, consider our
environmental responsability before
printing this email
Le 12/06/2012 18:19, 王洋 a écrit :
Dear
Adrien Jezequel,
Thanks for your quick reply!
Tcool
= 35 - 9 * Summer means if
in summer, Tcool = 26 °C?
I tried to run
the simulation based on your solution Tcool = 35
- 9 * Summer, the result is
also like the last Attached.
Oppositely, it is not my heating
system seems to work all the time, it
is my cooling system
seems to work all the time.
I set internal gains all the year.
Please see the Attached *.tpf and *.bui
files, if you have free time , please
help me have a look and give me some
solutions.
Regarding
your heating system it may be
something like :
Theat =
21*Winter
Regarding
your attached picture, your
heating system seems to work all
the time.
In summer, either you cool at
21°C, either there is no
internal gains defined, and you
heat at 21°C.
Check your differents inputs.
You can procede step by step
(internal gain = 0, ventilation
= 0, infiltration rate = 0...)
to see the influence of each
parameters in your model to
catch your issue.
Afin
de contribuer au respect de
l'environnement, merci de
n'imprimer cet e-mail que si
nécessaire
Please,
consider our environmental
responsability before
printing this email
Le 12/06/2012 17:47, 王洋 a écrit :
Dear Adrien
Jezequel,
Many thanks!
I think you'd
better put for cooling
temperatures
35°C in
winter (no cool) -
heating temperature at
21°C
24°C in
summer
which may be translated in
an equation tool by
something like :
summer =
GE(TIME,2162)*LT(TIME,6552)
winter =
1 - summer
Tcool =
35*Winter - 9*Summer
For Tcool
= 35*Winter - 9*Summer,
do you mean if in winter,
Tcool = 35 °C, so Cooling
doesn't work ; if in summer,
Tcool = -9°C or 24 °C?
Meanwhile, another weird
phenomena appear: After
running based on your
solution in winter, indoor
temperature becomes 35 °C
also not 21 °C, although I
set heating temperature as
21 °C; in summer, however,
indoor temperature becomes
21 °C. Please see the
Attached On-Line Plotter
image.
Furthermore, when I create
another Tcool equation as 35*winter+24*summer, the result is
also like the Attached
On-Line Plotter image.
Please give me some
solutions or advices!
I think the point how to set
that Cooling doesn't work in
winter? The possible reason
of that problem is that I
also set a Mechanical
Ventilation in winter
(Tset=19 °C) and summer (Tset=17 °C). I
guess Maybe the Mechanical
Ventilation will influence
on Cooling and heating?
---------- 已转发邮件
----------
From: <jose.gonzalez@imdea.org>
To: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Cc:
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012
14:56:21 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Re:
[TRNSYS-users]
TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol
90, Issue 23
I am out of the office
from Monday, June 11 to
Friday, June 15 and unable
to respond at this time.
Afin de
contribuer au
respect de
l'environnement,
merci de
n'imprimer cet
e-mail que si
nécessaire
Please,
consider our
environmental
responsability
before printing
this email
Le 12/06/2012 14:55, 王洋
a écrit :
Dear all,
I make a simulation.
The cooling set
temperature is
24*Summer schedule
(2162 h to 6552 h),
The heating set
temperature is
21*Winter schedule
(the rest hours).
After running,
however, it appears
WEIRD phenomenon.
Please see the
ATTACHED
Energy_zone.BAL
file. During the
winter period, there
are Qcools and Qcool
is very large up to
47000 kJ. And then
it results in wrong
BAL_ENERG, it is not
0.
Please give me some
advices and
solutions to that!
---------- 已转发邮件
----------
From: <jose.gonzalez@imdea.org>
To: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Cc:
Date: Mon, 11 Jun
2012 16:07:28
+0200 (CEST)
Subject: Re:
[TRNSYS-users]
TRNSYS-users
Digest, Vol 90,
Issue 21
I am out of the
office from
Monday, June 11 to
Friday, June 15
and unable to
respond at this
time.
I will be out of
the office from
June 8 - 23 on a
backpacking trip
with my son and
his Venture Crew
at Philmont Scout
Ranch in New
Mexico. I will not
have access to
email or phone
service while I am
gone, but I will
reply to your
message as soon as
possible after I
return to the
office on Monday,
June 25th.
In order to
simulate a
water-cooled
chiller, first I
need to create
the 2 external
files for this
component.
I'm trying to
find some
catalogues with
information of a
40 to 45 kW
water-cooled
chiller but the
web pages I run
into it, ask me
to register, but
I'm still
waiting the
username and
pasword. Does
anyone has a
catalgoue with
this type of
info regarding
this cooling
capacity
machine?
Best regards,
Andrés
--
Andrés Montero
I.
---------- 已转发邮件
----------
From: Santeri
Siren <santeri.siren1@gmail.com>
To: "trnsys
käyttäjät" <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 11 Jun
2012 19:56:40
+0300
Subject: [TRNSYS-users]
Type 673 heating
problem
Dear all,
I cant make
type673 heating
mode to work.
Cooling mode works
just fine but when
I change the
cooling control
signal to 0 and
heating control
signal to 1 it
doesnt work
anymore. When the
heating mode is
used nothing
happens. Does
anyone know why?
---------- 已转发邮件
----------
From: Mazen Darwish <mazentd@gmail.com>
To: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Cc:
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012
16:05:51 +0200
Subject: [TRNSYS-users]
Flue gas stack in TRNSYS
Hello everyone ,
Is there a way to
model a flue gas stack
in TRNSYS , i need to
recirculate hot air and
flue gases from the
economizer in an HRSG
back to a solar tower .
I will be out of the
office from June 8 - 23 on
a backpacking trip with my
son and his Venture Crew
at Philmont Scout Ranch in
New Mexico. I will not
have access to email or
phone service while I am
gone, but I will reply to
your message as soon as
possible after I return to
the office on Monday, June
25th.
