Wang,
QHEAT is the amount of sensible energy that has to be added to a
space to maintain it at its set point temperature. I am highly
skeptical that it is possible or even correct to try and "verify"
Type56 using steady state hand calculations. Type56 takes into
account hundreds of interdependent phenomena and holding something
like indoor/outdoor temperature difference constant is no guarantee
that all of them will be constant. A few comments about your test:
I assume you do not have any solar incident on your building as that
would have a significant impact on QHEAT. Second, Type56 dynamically
calculates (and can output) the convective heat transfer coefficient
on the inside and outside surface of each wall. Those coefficients
impact the overall u-value of the wall; make sure that you are using
the same u-value in your hand calc as Type56 is using. Third;
windows pose an even more complex problem as they are modeled as
having a frame u-value, and a center of glass u-value that I believe
is derated to account for edge effects. Make certain that the
u-value you are using in your hand calculations and the u-value that
Type56 is calculating are the same. Fourth, I assume that you have
no internal gains, infiltration, or ventilation in your building
either as these also would impact QHEAT. Fifth, if your building has
multiple zones, make certain that all of them are at the same
temperature. Sixth, if you are modeling a floor that is coupled to a
boundary temperature, there is probably energy transfer through that
surface. Seventh, the Type56 zones all have initial conditions; make
certain that your calculation is done long after the start of the
simulation to avoid any leftover transient effects.
David
On 3/10/2011 10:58, 王洋 wrote:
Dear all,
I want to know what is the QHEAT caculation model in TRNSYS?
Because I assumed a situation: The indoor and outdoor temperature
keep the constant all the time, based on the Energy Balance the
QHEAT must be equal to the heat loss through the walls. But the
result of QHEAT in TRNSYS is 6600 kJ/day, but the heat loss by
Heat transfer equations is 24000 kJ/day. So I want to know what
is the QHEAT caculation model in TRNSYS? Why both of them are so
much defferent?
Many thanks!
br.
wang
2011/3/10 <trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu>
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Today's Topics:
1. problem in trnbuild (Serban Cristina)
2. Re: problem in trnbuild (Matt Duffy)
3. Type 927 W/W heat pump (Partenay, Vincent)
4. Re: Type 927 W/W heat pump (Matt Duffy)
5. Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS (??)
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Serban Cristina <cristina.serban@unitbv.ro>
To: <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:33:42 +0200
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] problem in trnbuild
Dear trnsys users,
I am a new user of TRNSYS and I have encountered some
problems.
I created a multizone building in simulation studio, and
when I edited the building in trnbuild I created a new wall
but I haven't defined layers in it.
Now when I try to edit the building to define the wall the
error: no layers defined in mtype13 appears. I click ok and
trnbuild closes.
How can I define my wall? is there a way? or do I have to
start over again?
My building has 4 zones but they are displayed on 2 levels
(floors). Is there a way to automatically create the
building on 2 levels?
In trnbuild each zone has 5 walls. If I add a new wall type
(e.g. ceiling) to each zone will the building be with two
levels?
P.S. I tried using the trnsys3d plugin but it doesn't work.
It gives me too many errors.
PhD. Cristina SERBAN
Transilvania University of Brasov
Department of Renewable Energy Systems and Recycling
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Matt Duffy <duffy@tess-inc.com>
To: Serban Cristina <cristina.serban@unitbv.ro>
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 06:25:48 -0600
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem in trnbuild
Dear Cristina,
Since you are a new user, I am going to suggest that you
instead use and learn the Trnsys3D plugin for Google SketchUp.
There is a great tutorial that will walk you through
everything, it is simple to apply multiple zones, add windows,
and shading. After you import this Trnsys3d (*.idf) file into
TrnBuild, you can indeed change the wall constructions. Please
give it a try and let me know if you have any questions.
Best regards,
Matt Duffy
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists
Sent from my mobile wireless device. Please excuse any typos.
On Mar 10, 2011, at 4:33 AM, Serban Cristina <cristina.serban@unitbv.ro>
wrote:
> Dear trnsys users,
>
> I am a new user of TRNSYS and I have encountered some
problems.
>
> I created a multizone building in simulation studio, and
when I edited the building in trnbuild I created a new wall
but I haven't defined layers in it.
> Now when I try to edit the building to define the wall
the error: no layers defined in mtype13 appears. I click ok
and trnbuild closes.
> How can I define my wall? is there a way? or do I have to
start over again?
>
> My building has 4 zones but they are displayed on 2
levels (floors). Is there a way to automatically create the
building on 2 levels?
> In trnbuild each zone has 5 walls. If I add a new wall
type (e.g. ceiling) to each zone will the building be with two
levels?
>
>
> P.S. I tried using the trnsys3d plugin but it doesn't
work. It gives me too many errors.
>
> PhD. Cristina SERBAN
> Transilvania University of Brasov
> Department of Renewable Energy Systems and Recycling
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Partenay, Vincent" <vincent.partenay@cstb.fr>
To: "trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu"
<trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:01:25 +0000
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Type 927 W/W heat pump
Dear all,
I’m working with the new type 927
and I would like to get some information about how it
works
Is there an available detailed
documentation of Type 927 ?
Thanks in advance,
Vincent
PARTENAY
Energies Renouvelables - Département ESE
Centre Scientifique et Technique du Bâtiment
290 Route des Lucioles BP 209 – F 06904 Sophia
Antipolis Cedex
Tél : +33-(0)4-93-95-67-21
Fax : +33-(0)4-93-95-64-31
Évitez d’imprimer vos emails
inutilement. Respectez l’environnement
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Matt Duffy" <duffy@tess-inc.com>
To: "Partenay, Vincent" <vincent.partenay@cstb.fr>,
trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:49:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type 927 W/W heat pump
Dear Vincent,
The detailed documentation for that component is not quite
available; however, you may refer the the documentation for
the previous version, Type668.
The Type927 WWHP is a fairly straightforward component. It
references your manufacturer's data in the performance map in
the external file. Oppose to Type668, the data file is
normalized, so you can scale the power and the capacity as
parameters in Type927. If you have any other particular
questions about this component, please feel free to contact
me.
Best regards,
Matt Duffy
----- Original
Message -----
From: "Partenay, Vincent" < vincent.partenay@cstb.fr>
Sent: Thu, March 10, 2011 7:01
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Type 927 W/W heat pump
Dear all,
I’m
working with the new type 927 and I would
like to get some information about how it
works
Is there
an available detailed documentation of
Type 927 ?
Thanks in
advance,
Vincent PARTENAY
Energies Renouvelables
- Département ESE
<
/p>
Centre Scientifique et
Technique du Bâtiment
290 Route des Lucioles
BP 209 – F 06904 Sophia Antipolis Cedex
Tél :
+33-(0)4-93-95-67-21
Fax :
+33-(0)4-93-95-64-31
Évitez d’imprimer vos
emails inutilement. Respectez
l’environnement
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
|
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767@gmail.com>
To: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:46:00 +0100
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS
Dear all,
I have some questions about Wall heat transfer model in
TRNSYS:
1. I only find some equations about wall in Manual( such as
Radaitive heat flows to the wall, external walls), but I only
can understand a little. Please tell me some reference books
about Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS. Because I simulated
an actual test room: the indoor and outdoor temperature keep
the same 20°C and 10°C, respectively, during one day 24 hours.
As this situation, QHEAT muss be equal to Q heat loss by walls
based on energy balance. But the result of QHEAT in TRNSYS is
6632 kJ, but based on heat transfer equations I got the heat
loss energy is 24307 kJ. So I want to know the Wall heat
transfer model in TRNSYS.
2. To Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS: Whether it will
consider Solar absorptance and Longwave Emission or not? But I
didn't define these things. But from NTYPE 906 Energy Balance
for surfaces:
1_B6_BAL = - 1_B6_DQWALLdt- 1_B6_QCOMI+ 1_B6_QCOMO+
1_B6_QRADGI+ 1_B6_QRADGO- 1_B6_QALG
5.839E-14 -2.217E+03 -1.093E-01 -2.217E+03
3.725E-03 0.000E+00 0.000E+00
But We can see B6_QRADGI still has value as 3.725E-03. I
cann't understand. Please explain possible reasons for it.
B6_DQWALLdt in Manual is change of internal energy of surface,
but it's a little abstract. Here I only used the heatings in
TRNBUILD, no other internal gains. PLEASE give me some
examples about change of internal energy of surface. Is it
energy Generation of Wall etc.? Why here is minus
(-2.217E+03)? What's difference between B6_DQWALLdt and
B6_QCOMO? Why here they are the same? Is there some reasons?
3. How to get or check the TRNSYS program's source code? And
how to get the TRNSYS program's setup files and look over the
"compiled" files(fortran) etc.? Because some simulation
results I cann't understand such as the above Wall heat
transfer model in TRNSYS etc. I want to understand their model
and those simulation results and compare with the results by
hand.
Many thanks!
br.
wang
2011/3/8 王洋 <wanghongyang1767@gmail.com>
2011/3/7 王洋 <wanghongyang1767@gmail.com>
Dear all,
I have some questions about Wall heat transfer
model in TRNSYS:
1. I only find some equations about wall in
Manual( such as Radaitive heat flows to the wall,
external walls), but I only can understand a
little. Please tell me some reference books about
Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS. Because I
simulated an actual test room: the indoor and
outdoor temperature keep the same 20°C and 10°C,
respectively, during one day 24 hours. As this
situation, QHEAT muss be equal to Q heat loss by
walls based on energy balance. But the result of
QHEAT in TRNSYS is 6632 kJ, but based on heat
transfer equations I got the heat loss energy is
24307 kJ. So I want to know the Wall heat transfer
model in TRNSYS.
2. To Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS: Whether
it will consider Solar absorptance and Longwave
Emission or not? But I didn't define these things.
But from NTYPE 906 Energy Balance for surfaces:
1_B6_BAL = - 1_B6_DQWALLdt- 1_B6_QCOMI+
1_B6_QCOMO+ 1_B6_QRADGI+ 1_B6_QRADGO-
1_B6_QALG
5.839E-14 -2.217E+03 -1.093E-01
-2.217E+03 3.725E-03 0.000E+00
0.000E+00
But We can see B6_QRADGI still has value as
3.725E-03. I cann't understand. Please explain
possible reasons for it.
B6_DQWALLdt in Manual is change of internal energy
of surface, but it's a little abstract. Here I
only used the heatings in TRNBUILD, no other
internal gains. PLEASE give me some examples about
change of internal energy of surface. Is it energy
Generation of Wall etc.? Why here is minus
(-2.217E+03)? What's difference between
B6_DQWALLdt and B6_QCOMO? Why here they are the
same? Is there some reasons?
3. How to get or check the TRNSYS program's source
code? And how to get the TRNSYS program's setup
files and look over the "compiled" files(fortran)
etc.? Because some simulation results I cann't
understand such as the above Wall heat transfer
model in TRNSYS etc. I want to understand their
model and those simulation results and compare
with the results by hand.
Many thanks!
br.
wang
2011/3/7 <trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu>
Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
Web, visit
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or
body 'help' to
trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu
You can reach the person managing the list at
trnsys-users-owner@cae.wisc.edu
When replying, please edit your Subject line
so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Questions...please reply (Matt Duffy)
2. Re: Stratified storage Tank (Matt Duffy)
3. Re: Strange error (Rambod Rayegan)
4. Re: Strange error (Matt Duffy)
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Matt Duffy" <duffy@tess-inc.com>
To: juvenciotavares@hotmail.com,
trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:34:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Questions...please
reply
Dear Juvencio,
It appears that when you imported the file
into TRNBuild, the application did not find
the adjacent surface. This could be for a
couple of reasons: the adjacency needs to be
defined, or the surface in TRNSYS3D has a face
that is reversed. Please refer to the TRNSYS3D
tutorial PDF for more great information.
Best regards,
Matt Duffy
-----
Original Message -----
From: "Juvêncio Correia Tavares" < juvenciotavares@hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:50
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users]
Questions...please reply
I`m doing
a dynamic
simulation of buildings in TRNSYS, during the simulation gave the following
error ... as you can see in the picture.
how can I fix this error?
<
span title="Clique para obter
tradu??es alternativas"
class="ecxhps">And also, I would like to send me a PDF about connection.
I await
your response.
thanks.
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Matt Duffy" <duffy@tess-inc.com>
To: "Lei Wang" <leiwang@tees.tamus.edu>,
trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:41:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Stratified storage
Tank
Dear Lei Wang,
I just tried this, and it simulated without
problems in version 17, but
when I tried in version 16, I also received
the error. I can only
speculate that this is due to the changes that
we implemented for
TrnsysConstants - we increased the number of
parameters.
Another option besides updating to version 17
is to use the Type534 TESS
Tank model as well. Please let me know if you
have any more questions
about this.
Best regards,
Matt Duffy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lei Wang" <leiwang@tees.tamus.edu>
Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 16:17
Subject:[TRNSYS-users] Stratified storage Tank
Hi, All
I try to use the Type4a(stratified storage
tank) to modeling the ChW
thermal storage
tank, which volume was 1 million gal and
height was 100 feet.
The description of the type is as following
"The thermal performance of a fluid-filled
sensible energy storage tank,
subject to
thermal stratification, can be modeled by
assuming that the tank consists
of N (N <=
100) fully-mixed equal volume segments"
So I think the maximum nodes number can be
100.
But when I input the number of nodes were 100,
the TrnExe shows that there
was a
range check error. When I check the list file,
there didn't show any error
Information.
When I input the number of nodes were 80, it
works fine.
Thanks
Lei
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
----- End of original message -----
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Rambod Rayegan <rraye001@fiu.edu>
To: hotline <hotline@transsolar.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 10:49:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange error
Christian,
Even when I change back the roof property to
the previous one, the error exists. It
seems, right now, it is independent of the
roof property. This is the reason that I
called it strange error.
Rambod Rayegan
Ph.D Candidate
Mechanical Engineering Department
Florida International University
10555 W Flagler St, EC3620
Miami, FL, 33174
305-348-3558 (Office)
786-218-7375(Cell)
305-348-1932 (Fax)
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011
at 7:33 AM, hotline <hotline@transsolar.com>
wrote:
Hi,
seems like
you hit a limit for the generation
of the transfer function
coefficients.
Please check
if the roof is defined correctly.
Regards
Christian
TRANSSOLAR
Software Team
hotline@transsolar.com
www.trnsys.de
Transsolar
KlimaEngineering - Technologien
für energieeffizientes Bauen und
Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden
Transsolar
Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse
2, 70563 Stuttgart / Amtsgericht
Stuttgart - HRB 23347 / UsSt.-Id:
DE152272639
Geschäftsführer:
Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler,
Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys.
Stefan Holst, Prof. Volkmar
Bleicher
I am working on a model created
buy TRNSYS 3d plugin in google
sketchup for couple of months.
Everyday I add something to it or
modify some parameters in it.
Today, I have just changed the
roof type in the building type 56
and tried to run it again but I
have received the following error:
Visual
Fortran run-time error
fortrtl:severe(64):input
conversion error, unit 56, file
C:\.....building.trn
Image PC
Routine Source DFORRT.DLL
02014C49 Unknown Unknown
Unknown
Anybody has an idea to solve
the issue?
Thank you.
Rambod Rayegan
Ph.D Candidate
Mechanical Engineering Department
Florida International University
10555 W Flagler St, EC3620
Miami, FL, 33174
305-348-3558 (Office)
786-218-7375(Cell)
305-348-1932 (Fax)
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Matt Duffy" <duffy@tess-inc.com>
To: "Rambod Rayegan" <rraye001@fiu.edu>, hotline@transsolar.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:57:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange error
Dear Rambod,
If you send me the IDF file, I might be able
to shed some light on the error.
Best regards,
Matt Duffy
-----
Original Message -----
From: "Rambod Rayegan" < rraye001@fiu.edu>
Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 9:49
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange
error
Christian,
Even when I change back the roof
property to the previous one, the error
exists. It seems, right now, it is
independent of the roof property. This
is the reason that I called it strange
error.
Rambod Rayegan
Ph.D Candidate
Mechanical Engineering Department
Florida International University
10555 W Flagler St, EC3620
Miami, FL, 33174
305-348-3558 (Office)
786-218-7375(Cell)
305-348-1932 (Fax)
On Mon, Mar 7,
2011 at 7:33 AM, hotline <hotline@transsolar.com>
wrote:
Hi,
seems
like you hit a limit for the
generation of the transfer
function coefficients.
Please
check if the roof is defined
correctly.
Regards
Christian
TRANSSOLAR
Software Team
hotline@transsolar.com
www.trnsys.de
Transsolar
KlimaEngineering -
Technologien für
energieeffizientes Bauen und
Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden &n!
bsp;
Transsolar
Energietechnik GmbH,
Curiestrasse 2, 70563
Stuttgart / Amtsgericht
Stuttgart - HRB 23347 /
UsSt.-Id: DE152272639
Geschäftsführer:
Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler,
Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer,
Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof.
Volkmar Bleicher
I am working on a model
created buy TRNSYS 3d plugin
in google sketchup for couple
of months. Everyday I add
something to it or modify some
parameters in it. Today, I
have just changed the roof
type in the building type 56
and tried to run it again but
I have received the following
error:
Visual
Fortran run-time error
fortrtl:severe(64):input
conversion error, unit 56,
file C:\.....building.trn
Image PC
Routine Source DFORRT.DLL
02014C49 Unknown Unknown
Unknown
Anybody has an idea to
solve the issu! e?
Thank you.
Rambod Rayegan
Ph.D Candidate
Mechanical Engineering
Department
Florida International
University
10555 W Flagler St, EC3620
Miami, FL, 33174
305-348-3558 (Office)
786-218-7375(Cell)
305-348-1932 (Fax)
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
d.bradley@tess-inc.com
http://www.tess-inc.com
http://www.trnsys.com
|