Re: [TRNSYS-users] [TRNSYS] Use/simulation of radiator in TRNSYS

Hi Marion!

Thank you for helping!

I was in TRNSYS, right clicked on a Type56 building and then choose edit building, then I came into TRNBUILD, so I guess that should have been done right?

Im not quite sure which wall it is that's undefined, the error message says

Zone: GND_ROOM1                     (The first room in the ground floor of the house)
NODE: GND_ROOM1_NODE      (The node in the same room)

undefined WALL ORIENTATION

N_0_90                                           (My north orientation)

It doesen't specify which wall it is, only which room.

Im not sure I can find the b17 file, When I saved my project I got 4 different files the 1: TRNBuild Building file 2: a TRNBuild text file, the type of it is "installation information" 3: a .bld file and 4: a .trn file. should there also be a .b17 file?

Best regards

Peter

From: Hiller@Transsolar.com
To: trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:30:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] [TRNSYS] Use/simulation of radiator in TRNSYS

Peter,

2: I was modelling a multi-zone house in TRNBUILD …

This is strange and I’m not aware that someone else reported that TRNbuild saves a file and can’t reopen it.

Did you create the building in T3d/Sketchup and then import it into TRNBuild?

Is it an “adjacent” wall where the orientation is missing?

In general, errors are introduced by editing the b17 file and the idea is that errors should then be fixed in the b17 file.

Caution: Before you start editing the b17 file make a backup copy first!

Editing the b17 file tricky because you have to use the correct syntax.

You may open the b17 file search for the surface and check the orientation.

The orientation has to be defined previously by the keyword orientations.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* O r i e n t a t i o n s

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HEMISPHERE NORTHERN

ORIENTATIONS H_0_0 S_0_90 S_0_25 W_90_90 N_180_90 N_180_25 E_270_90

As a quick fix you select an already defined orientation for this wall.

Open it in TRNbuild and then define the correct orientation there and select it in the zone view for the wall.

Marion

Von: TRNSYS-users [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] Im Auftrag von Peter Bennewitz
Gesendet: Montag, 2. November 2015 08:35
An: TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org
Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] [TRNSYS] Use/simulation of radiator in TRNSYS

Thanks!

It seems as though type 361, 362 and 363 cost 110 Euros to use, am I right in this ? Im not sure I can afford to pay 110 Euros so I might have to think of another solution.

Has anyone got the radiator typ 1231 to work?

I actually have a couple of more questions. Would be very thankful if anyone would know the anwser to them.

1: I want to make my TRNSYS project larger so I can fit in more components, I went into File->Settings->Project and changed the height and width under "Project size" but nothing happend, how do you do to increase the size of your project?

2: I was modelling a multizone house in TRNBUILD I managed to save it without problem but when I want to open the project again I get an error message saying that the direction of a wall is undefined and the project will not open. This has happend to me once before and then I just redid the house, but now Im thinking that there must be a way to open/fix this without having to redo everything. It's quite difficult not to get one direction or wall undefined when you model a whole house I don't understand why TRNBUILD will not just let you into your project again so you can fix whatever is undefined. Does anyone know how to solve this?

Many thanks beforehand.

Best regards

Peter

From: heimrath@tugraz.at
To: trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 06:47:37 +0000
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] [TRNSYS] Use/simulation of radiator in TRNSYS

Dear Peter,

die Types 361 und 362 are non-standard types from Transsolar

http://trnsys.de/docs/komponenten/komponenten_ts_de.htm

with sunny regards

Richard

Von: TRNSYS-users [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] Im Auftrag von Peter Bennewitz
Gesendet: Montag, 02. November 2015 07:35
An: TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org <trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org>
Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] [TRNSYS] Use/simulation of radiator in TRNSYS

Hi Juan!

Thank you for the anwser.

Are TYPE 361 and TYPE 362 radiators ?

I can't seem to find TYPE 361 and TYPE 362, are they part of the TRNSYS/TESS library and if so, under which directory are they?
If they are not part of TRNSYS/TESS library then where can you get them?

Best regards

Peter

From: JuanF.Belmonte@uclm.es
To: trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:18:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] [TRNSYS] Use/simulation of radiator in TRNSYS

Hello Peter.

As another option, you may use the nonstandard Types from Transsolar, TYPE 361 and TYPE362, which include static (steady state) and dynamic (considering the heat capacity of the radiator) models.

Regards.

De: TRNSYS-users [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] En nombre de Peter Bennewitz
Enviado el: jueves, 29 de octubre de 2015 08:07 a.m.
Para: trnsys-users@lists.onebuilding.org
Asunto: [TRNSYS-users] [TRNSYS] Use/simulation of radiator in TRNSYS

Hi !

I am simulating the heating of a house with the help of a solar thermal system in TRNSYS. Previously I used a radiator Type1231 for heating the house, the problem is that I discovered that the water flowing out from the radiator had a temperature lower than that of the ambient temperature of the house, and sometimes would drop as low as below freezing.

This would meen that the radiator is extracting energy from the water rather than just letting the hot water radiating heat, and thus not simulating a real radiator in an accurate way.

Now I am using the heat exchanger Type5c instead and trying to let it work as a radiator by letting the influid have the specific heat 4.19 kJ/kg*K (water) and the outfluid 1 kJ/kg*K (air). This seems to work reasonably well the problem is that it is hard to know how large the flowrate should be on the load side to simulate a real radiator in an accurate way.

I have been thinking about maybe using an equation instead, but the same problems with uncertainty regarding how large the flowrate on the load side should be would occur there.

Does anyone know if there is a way to let the radiator Type1231 work properly, or does anyone have any other ide of how to simulate an ordinary radiator with water inflow radiating heat (heating) the air around it?

Best regards

Peter Bennewitz

Lund University

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