Dear Jeff,You can use a sensible heat exchanger model and a series of equations and Type 33 psychrometrics models - but this gets pretty tricky - especially if condensation occurs. Nothing is horribly difficult in modeling these systems but using a model which accounts for all of the possibilities will make it a lot easier.
Many thanks for your reply!
Could you please pass me some relative examples for Heat Recovery ventilation system using a sensible heat exchanger model and a series of equations and Type 33 psychrometrics models? Or please tell me where could I find some relative examples?
Since I can not find any Examples from TRNSYS/Examples file for that. For a beginner, it is too difficult if no examples.
Many thanks in advance!
Br.
wang2012/10/12 <trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Heat Recovery ventilation system (Jeff Thornton)Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:08:55 -0500
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Jeff Thornton <thornton@tess-inc.com>
To: <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Cc:
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Heat Recovery ventilation system
<Do you mean we must buy TESS HVAC Library for TRNSYS?
Equation or other component/Type in Simulation studio?>
Is there no other methods to model exhaust air/fresh
air Heat Recovery Ventilation System in Simulation Studio? E.g. using
You can use a sensible heat exchanger model and a series of equations and Type 33 psychrometrics models - but this gets pretty tricky - especially if condensation occurs. Nothing is horribly difficult in modeling these systems but using a model which accounts for all of the possibilities will make it a lot easier. Good luck with your study!
Jeff
---Jeff Thornton
President - TESS LLC
22 N. Carroll Street, Madison WI USA 53703
Office: (608) 274-2577 Fax: (608) 278-1475
E-Mail: thornton@tess-inc.com
On 10/12/2012 4:13 am, 王洋 wrote:
Dear Jeff Thornton,
Many thanks for your reply!
Do you mean we must buy TESS HVAC Library for TRNSYS?
Is there no other methods to model exhaust air/fresh
air Heat Recovery Ventilation System in Simulation Studio? E.g. using Equation or other component/Type in Simulation studio?
Many thanks in advance!
Br.
wang
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Heat Recovery ventilation system (Jeff Thornton)
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Jeff Thornton <thornton@tess-inc.com>
To: <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Cc:
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 12:09:33 -0500
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Heat Recovery ventilation system
There are several heat recovery models in the TESS HVAC Library for TRNSYS. The general descriptions of these models may be downloaded from www.TRNSYS.com by following the TESS Libraries link.
1. Modifying connection line properties ? (Santeri Siren)
2. Re: Modifying connection line properties ? (Angel Carrera)
3. Re: Fwd: Converging error (??)
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Santeri Siren <santeri.siren1@gmail.com>
To: "trnsys käyttäjät" <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Cc:
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:46:29 +0300
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Modifying connection line properties ?
Dear users,
is there a way to modify the properties (e.g. change color or weight) of multiple connection lines between components at the same time. It takes a lot of time to change line properties one at a time.
best regards,
Santeri Siren
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Angel Carrera <angel.carrera@aiguasol.coop>
To: Santeri Siren <santeri.siren1@gmail.com>
Cc: "trnsys käyttäjät" <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:08:48 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Modifying connection line properties ?
Dear Santeri,
right-click on a connection with the style you wish to copy and choose and choose "copy style". Them, you can copy this to another line just right-clicking on it and selecting "apply style"
Angel2012/10/10 Santeri Siren <santeri.siren1@gmail.com>
Dear users,
is there a way to modify the properties (e.g. change color or weight) of multiple connection lines between components at the same time. It takes a lot of time to change line properties one at a time.
best regards,
Santeri Siren
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
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--
Àngel Carrera
Consultor Senior
Àrea tècnica
Sistemes Avançats d'Energia Solar Tèrmica SCCL
C/ Roger de Llúria, 29 3r 2a 08009 Barcelona
Mòbil: (+34) 663 27 66 80
Tel: (+34) 93 342 47 55 Ext:2015
Fax: (+34) 93 342 47 56
angel.carrera@aiguasol.coop
http://www.aiguasol.coop
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767@gmail.com>
To: hotline <hotline@transsolar.com>
Cc: trnsys-users <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:37:23 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Fwd: Converging error
Dear Marion,
Many thanks for your patient reply!
1) I use TRNSYS 16, there is no TSGRD in TYPE 56.
2) The height over sea level of Default is 0 m I used.
3) You are right. I tried to use *.tm2 weather data, this Error disappeared! But my Userdefined weather data is TRN/TRY weather data. Why does it result in aforementioned Errors (Converging error by my past emails)?
If I must use our own TRN/TRY weather data, how to avoid this Converging error?
4) Yes, The data reader Type 9 is placed after the building now for my simulation., Do you mean Type 9 should be placed before the Building Type 56? Is Better?
Many thanks in advance!
Br.
wang2012/10/10 hotline <hotline@transsolar.com>
Dear Wang,
there are several issues within your simulation concerning the outside longwave exchange of external surfaces
1.) You didn’t connect TSGRD such that it is set 0 => If you have no information set it Tamb
2.) For Sky temperature calculation with Type 69, you forgot to enter the height above sea level.
3.) You read the ambient temperature and the relative air humditiy from a userdefined file by type 9
instead of using the data from the weather file.
This file wasn’t attached, but it might be an error source especially when interpolating incorrect data.
For testing, please use the ambient temperature and rel. humidity from the assigned weather file throughout your simulation.
Please check your userdefined data and the outputs of Type 9 WITHOUT connecting them to TYPE 56.4.) In addition, please check the component order. The data reader Type 9 is placed after the building.
Marion
Von: 王洋 [mailto:wanghongyang1767@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Montag, 8. Oktober 2012 15:31
An: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu; hotline
Betreff: Fwd: Converging error
Dear Marion and TRNSYS Users,
Thanks for your reply!
I checked all you mentioned, I can't find any special/abnormal settings. Furthermore, it runs well when the time step is 1 hour. For other steps e.g. 0.1 h, 0.2 h or 0.5 h, it appears that ERROR.
Please help me have a look at the attached project if you are free.
Many thanks in advance!
br.
wang---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767@gmail.com>
Date: 2012/9/28
Subject: Converging error
To: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu, hotline@transsolar.com
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "hotline" <hotline@transsolar.com>
To: trnsys-users <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Cc:
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:02:00 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Converging errorWang,
This problem may occur from incorrect ambient condition settings:
Please check the following inputs of Type 56
1- TAMB
2- RELHUMAMB
3- TSKY
4- TSGRD
In addition make sure that in the BUI file the surface
- outside emissitive is ≤ 1
- outside convective heat transfer coefficient ist set to reasonable value
If the error presits, we need the complete project to give further advice.
Marion
2012/9/28 <trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: problem with iterations?? (Matt Duffy)
2. Re: problem with iterations?? (Marion Hiller)
3. Re: Converging error (hotline)
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Matt Duffy <duffy@tess-inc.com>
To: <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Cc:
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:04:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations??Karol,
I noticed from your listing (*.lst) file that your working directory is located on your computer's desktop directory. This is not recommended due to the potential issues with the Windows OS system and write privleges. I would first try changing your working directory to the ".\MyProjects" directory or in a folder right on the "C:" drive. I am not certain that this is the issue with the TRNEXE, but if the problem persists, please contact your distributor, techsupport@tess-inc.com.
Best regards,
Matt Duffy
On 2012-09-27 03:46, Karol Bandurski wrote:
Dear All,
I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for each zone with set temperature depending on time of day.
When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE.
Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is
Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING.
I will be grateful for any advice!
I enclose .lst file.
Regards,
------------------------------------------------
Karol Bandurski MSc.
Institute of Environmental Engineering
Poznan University of Technology
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Marion Hiller" <hiller@transsolar.com>
To: "karol.bandurski" <karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl>
Cc: trnsys-users <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:53:53 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations??Karol,
In general the notice has nothing to do with a frozen TRNEXE.exe,
it is just an information.
The message indicates that the internal controller for turning on the
integrated heating/cooling has convergence problems and a deadband is applied to promote convergence.
This may be the case at the moment of turning ON or OFF something.
After 6 internal iterations a deadband is added to promote convergence.
If the convergence isn’t reached after 12 iterations a warning is written to the lst/log file.
Regards,
Marion
Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller
TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude
Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0
Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart
Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.: DE152272639Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher
Von: Karol Bandurski [mailto:karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 10:47
An: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations??
Dear All,
I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for each zone with set temperature depending on time of day.
When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE.
Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is
Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING.
I will be grateful for any advice!
I enclose .lst file.
Regards,
------------------------------------------------
Karol Bandurski MSc.
Institute of Environmental Engineering
Poznan University of Technology
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "hotline" <hotline@transsolar.com>
To: trnsys-users <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Cc:
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:02:00 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Converging errorWang,
This problem may occur from incorrect ambient condition settings:
Please check the following inputs of Type 56
1- TAMB
2- RELHUMAMB
3- TSKY
4- TSGRD
In addition make sure that in the BUI file the surface
- outside emissitive is ≤ 1
- outside convective heat transfer coefficient ist set to reasonable value
If the error presits, we need the complete project to give further advice.
Marion
Von: 王洋 [mailto:wanghongyang1767@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 11:49
An: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] Converging error
Dear all,
I met a converging error when I changed simulation time step 1 hour into 0.1 hour or 0.2 hour or 0.01 hour as follows:
*** Fatal Error at time : 3972.000000
Generated by Unit : 56
Generated by Type : 56
Message : outside temperature of 2(external) wall in zone 1at time 3972.00 not converged!
Please tell me some possible solutions for that if you know. The attached is its Listing File.
Many thanks in advance!
Br.
wang2012/9/27 <trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu>
Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Doctoral Fellowships at TERI University, India (R.K. Singh)
2. problem with iterations?? (Karol Bandurski)
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "R.K. Singh" <singh.ramkishore@gmail.com>
To: TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
Cc:
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:04:34 +0530
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Doctoral Fellowships at TERI University, IndiaTERI University is currently inviting applications for Doctoral programmes in Bioresources/Biotechnology;Natural Resource Management, Energy and Environment and Regulatory and Policy studies for semester starting january 2013. A range of scholarship opportunities are also available for the students in specific areas, the details of which can be accessed through the following link.
The last date for application is October 31st, 2012. The details regarding fee, eligibility and other requirements can be accessed through http://teriuniversity.ac.in/index.php?option=com_program
For any further details please get in touch with Dr. Sapna A Narula, Associate Professor sapna.narula@teriuniversity.ac.in.
***********************************************
Dr. Ramkishore Singh
Department of Energy & Environment
TERI University
Tel: 91-11-26122222, Ext. 1302
Fax: 91-11-26122874
Web: www.teriuniversity.ac.in
***********************************************
---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Karol Bandurski" <karol.bandurski@put.poznan.pl>
To: <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
Cc:
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:46:49 +0200
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations??Dear All,
I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for each zone with set temperature depending on time of day.
When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE.
Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is
Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING.
I will be grateful for any advice!
I enclose .lst file.
Regards,
------------------------------------------------
Karol Bandurski MSc.
Institute of Environmental Engineering
Poznan University of Technology
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
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https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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