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Re: [TRNSYS-users] WG: 2nd error generating shading/insolation matrix -> too many shaders on projection plane
Dear Joke,
Good to hear that the first part causes no error anymore. :-)
Well, the error message of Type 56 is correct.
You need to add "MIN(MAX" to the equation I send before:
SHAD_ x_y_z =MIN(MAX(1-(IBSHAD+IDSHAD)/Window_area /IT_x_y_z),0),1)
with
IT_x_y_z ... total incident radiation on kJ/hr on orientation x_y_z
The reason for this is:
The Type 56 outputs in the equations are from the last iteration. Thus,
if at the "current time" less "radiation" occurs than at the previous
time the equation of SHAD_ x_y_z without "MIN(MAX" can become negative
for the first iteration at the "current time". For the second and all
following iteration steps the correct values are used. (These outputs of
Type56 aren't changing.)
If you remove the input from Type 56, the online shows the correct
results because the shown results "belong" to the final iteration at
this time and not for the first iteration.
Kind regards,
Marion
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joke De Beuckelaer [mailto:joke.d@vkgroup.be]
Gesendet: Montag, 23. Mai 2011 12:05
An: Marion Hiller; TRNSYS-users
Betreff: RE: [TRNSYS-users] WG: 2nd error generating shading/insolation
matrix -> too many shaders on projection plane
Dear Marion,
Still one very strange problem...
I have adapted the external shading device in the idf file like you side
(so only for two windows introduced and this per orientation).
Know the model is imported without any problems in Trnsys 17 and no
problem occurs by generating the shading matrix.
When I calculate the SHAD_x_y_z for the other windows following your
formula, I become values going from 0 to +-0,56, which is 100% logical.
But when I make a link between this output (from the equation) and the
input of the bui-file. I get an error: " 56 Message :
MULTIZONE BUILDING - SHADING RATIO OF A WINDOW IS LARGER THAN 1 OR
LESS THAN 0", but this is not the case, I printed the outputs.
In attachment you can find my files. I used the outputs of a window of
classe3 and I linked it then with the external shading devices of the
windows of classe1. When you delete these external shading devices, the
tpf-file prints the outputs of the equation that are linked with the
bui-file.
Kind regards,
Joke De Beuckelaer
project engineer mep
VK HEALTHCARE | BUILDINGS | INDUSTRY |
INFRA
Value by design
VK ENGINEERING Avenue Clemenceaulaan 87, 1070 Bruxelles Brussel,
Belgium
t +32 2 414 07 77 f +32 2 414 04 98 m +32 473 97 01 50 e
joke.d@vkgroup.be w www.vkgroup.be
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu
[mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@cae.wisc.edu] Namens Marion Hiller
Verzonden: donderdag 19 mei 2011 10:34
Aan: TRNSYS-users
Onderwerp: [TRNSYS-users] WG: 2nd error generating shading/insolation
matrix -> too many shaders on projection plane
Dear Joke,
the previous email was sent accidentally. I didn't finish typing the
equation. Please delete the previous one.
I debugged your project and it turns out that there are too many shaders
projected on the plane window/wall plane for clipping.
The shading routine isn't designed to calculate each lamella of a louver
for each window of a building. In addition each of your lamellas consist
of 6 surfaces. This results in 3040 shading surfaces!!!!
The solution is simplification without a significant loss of accuracy
(see attached image):
- delete all shading louvers except one for each orientation
- replace the six surfaces of a lamella by one sloped surface (the
diagonal
surface in the shading box).
For these windows a shading matrix is calculated und the shading is
calculated automatically.
For the other windows you set the external shading factor to an input.
You define Ntype 103 (IBSHAD) and Ntype 104 (IDSHAD) for the windows
with the shading matrix. For each orientations this input is calculated
by an equation in the TRNSYS Project file
SHAD_ x_y_z = 1 - (IBSHAD+IDSHAD)/Window_area /IT_x_y_z
with
IT_x_y_z ... total incident radiation on kJ/hr on orientation x_y_z
If you still have trouble, please send me your IDF file.
Kind regards,
Marion
Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller
TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen
und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude
Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0
Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart
Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.:
DE152272639
Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer,
Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joke De Beuckelaer [mailto:joke.d@vkgroup.be]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2011 08:09
An: Marion Hiller
Cc: TRNSYS-users
Betreff: RE: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Error: generating shading/insolation
matrix
Dear Marion,
It's strange that the error occurs because the surface number>999. When
I deleted all the shading except 1 rectangle, the same error occurred.
Or is this number (999) with the surfaces of the model included?
In attachment you can find the original idf file. Normally I've send all
my files already, didn't you receive them?
I'm working with Trnsys version 17.00.0018.
Thanks a lot already for all your help and I hope you can find the
problem,
Kind regards,
Joke De Beuckelaer
project engineer mep
VK HEALTHCARE | BUILDINGS | INDUSTRY |
INFRA
Value by design
VK ENGINEERING Avenue Clemenceaulaan 87, 1070 Bruxelles Brussel,
Belgium
t +32 2 414 07 77 f +32 2 414 04 98 m +32 473 97 01 50 e
joke.d@vkgroup.be w www.vkgroup.be
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Marion Hiller [mailto:hiller@transsolar.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 17 mei 2011 13:27
Aan: Joke De Beuckelaer
CC: TRNSYS-users
Onderwerp: AW: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Error: generating shading/insolation
matrix
Joke,
the error message is due to too surface numbers > 999. The surface
number can't be written in the log file (artsmetiers7_shd.log) and ***
are written instead.
*** Notice at time : 0.000000
Orientation of wall SURF=***: azimuth angle= 180.00°, slope= 90.00°
Orientation of wall SURF=***: azimuth angle= 0.00°, slope= 0.00°
In order to see why the surface numbers are so high (starting with
3993 instead of 1) I need to need the original *.idf and check the
import function.
With what version of TRNSYS17 are you working? I have in mind that we
fixed such a bug created by the import.
Kind regards,
Marion
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joke De Beuckelaer [mailto:joke.d@vkgroup.be]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2011 08:58
An: duffy@tess-inc.com; trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Error: generating shading/insolation matrix
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