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[TRNSYS-users] Fwd: Fwd: How to calculate the zone thermal time constant and pressure difference(pa)





Dear Mr. Bradley,

     But I cann't find the ASHRAE Handbook of Fundamentals about
  the Conduction Transfer Function methodology. My ASHRAE Handbook of Fundamentals is 2009 version.
The chapter 4 Heat transfer and Chapter 6 Mass transfer have no informations about transfer function coefficients.
Please tell me which chapter of the ASHRAE Handbook of Fundamentals contains transfer function coefficients etc.?

PLUS: In Test Data Option of TRNFLOW : about the pressure difference(pa). Please tell me normally what's the pressure differnce between outside and inside in winter or summer? The trnflow manual and Example Rest_com.tpf have no detailed introduction. I tried also 20 pa or 0 pa etc. Is it OK?

Many thanks!

Br.

wang





>
>
>  Wang,
>   The thermal time constant for a zone in your building is not a simple
> thing to compute. It has to do with the materials in the wall, the
> placement
> of the mass within the wall, the capacitance of the zone, ventilation,
> infiltration, gains, solar radiation, etc. I would think that the easiest
> way to get an estimate of the zone's thermal time constant is to impose a
> step change in one input on it - step change the ambient temperature while
> holding all other inputs constant for example.
>
>   The numbers that you see in the *.inf file are transfer function
> coefficients. You can read in the ASHRAE Handbook of Fundamentals about
> the
> Conduction Transfer Function methodology.
> Regards,
>  David
>
>
>
> On 11/3/2010 09:29, 王洋 wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> 1. How to calculate or find the thermal time constant of zone in TRNSYS
> software?
>
> ---------- WALL TYPE BST_FL_HEAT_W1      ----------
>
>        THERMAL CONDUCTANCE, U=    67.80000 kJ/h m2K; U-Wert=     4.48235
> W/m2K
>               (incl. alpha_i=7.7 W/m^2 K and alpha_o=25 W/m^2 K)
>
>                         TRANSFERFUNCTION COEFFICIENTS
>    K            A              B              C              D
>
>    0       1.7050117E+02    2.1087019E+01    1.7050117E+02
> 1.0000000E+00
>    1      -1.1800059E+02    3.5808933E+01   -1.1800059E+02
> -1.3683139E-01
>    2       6.0267372E+00    1.6298573E+00    6.0267372E+00
> 4.7362566E-05
>    3      -1.2736107E-03    2.3363784E-04   -1.2736107E-03
>   SUM      5.8526043E+01    5.8526043E+01    5.8526043E+01
> 8.6321597E-01
> What's meaning of A B C D? Are they Wall's TRANSFERFUNCTION COEFFICIENTS?
> And what is the thermal time constant of the whole zone? How to calculate
> or
> find the thermal time constant of the whole zone in TRNSYS software?
> Need I   calculate by myself the whole zone's TRANSFERFUNCTION based on
> all
> the walls of the zone or others?
>
> 2.  How to calculate or find air volume flow of the window opening in
> TRNFlow software?
>  The window opening area (m2)is known. Whether it needs the wind
> speed(m/s)
> or not?
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Br.
>
> wang
>  2010/11/3 <trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu>
>
>> Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: GenOpt optimization: problem for the second generation
>>      after 5 simulations (Thibaut VITTE)
>>   2. Re: google sketchup+trnsys3d (hotline)
>>   3. input file (Emiliano Casati - 3ME)
>>   4. Re: GenOpt optimization: problem for the secondgeneration
>>      after 5 simulations (Timothy McDowell)
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: Thibaut VITTE <thibaut.vitte@h3c-energies.fr>
>> To: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
>> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 11:27:53 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] GenOpt optimization: problem for the second
>> generation after 5 simulations
>> Dear Alexis,
>>
>> I've had a similar error when I used Genopt. I've had several components
>> tracked by a "trace" command that made my list file enormous (more than
>> 100Mb) and genopt could'nt handle that amount of data.
>>
>> Just my 2cents.
>>
>> Thibaut
>> --
>>
>> Le futur maîtrisé
>>
>>  Thibaut VITTE
>>
>> Docteur - Ingénieur Energies
>>
>> Mail : thibaut.vitte@h3c-energies.fr
>>
>> -----------------------------
>>
>> H3C-énergies
>>
>> 35, chemin du vieux Chêne - 38240 MEYLAN
>>
>> Tél : 04 76 41 88 66 – Fax : 04 76 41 28 94
>>
>> www.h3c-energies.fr
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Afin de contribuer au respect de l'environnement, merci de n'imprimer ce
>> message qu'en cas de nécessité.
>>
>> In order to respect the environment, please don't print this e-mail
>> unless
>> you really need to.
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: "hotline" <hotline@transsolar.com>
>> To: "julia.feste" <julia.feste@whitepavilion.com.cn>
>> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:37:08 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] google sketchup+trnsys3d
>> Hi,
>>
>> that's a well known problem that will be fixed in the next version.
>> Hopefully upcoming within the next weeks.
>>
>> Regards
>> Christian
>>
>> TRANSSOLAR Software Team
>> hotline@transsolar.com
>>
>> www.trnsys.de
>> Transsolar KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen
>> und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden
>> Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart /
>> Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347 / USt-IdNr.: 99073/00911
>> Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer,
>> Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Volkmar Bleicher
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: julia.feste [mailto:julia.feste@whitepavilion.com.cn]
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. November 2010 06:46
>> An: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
>> Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] google sketchup+trnsys3d
>>
>>
>> Hello everybody,
>> Thanks for your posts that's always really interesting!
>> I come up with a problem using Google Sketchup and TRNSYS3D: inside a
>> TRNSYS zone, I draft a square, then I want to pull it up at a certain
>> height, so I write the number then Enter, and this error appears:
>>
>> <-----Beginning of the error----->
>> ERROR:
>> NoMethodError
>> undefined method `position' for
>> #<Sketchup::AttributeDictionary:0xfcb4eb8>
>>
>> BACKTRACE:
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:309:in `polygon_loop'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:309:in `each'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:309:in `polygon_loop'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:321:in `outer_polygon'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:326:in `polygon'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/DrawingUtils.rb:27:in
>> `detect_base_face'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/DrawingUtils.rb:20:in `each'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/DrawingUtils.rb:20:in
>> `detect_base_face'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/BaseSurface.rb:254:in `face_polygon'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/BaseSurface.rb:253:in `each'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/BaseSurface.rb:253:in `face_polygon'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/Surface.rb:107:in
>> `update_input_object'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/BaseSurface.rb:94:in
>> `update_input_object'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/DrawingInterface.rb:353:in
>> `on_change_entity'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/observers/FaceObserver.rb:32:in `onChangeEntity'
>> C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>> 8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/AsynchProc.rb:17:in `initialize'
>>
>> <-----End of the error----->
>>
>> When I pull it up manual, I don't have any problem, just when I write
>> the number.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your help,
>> Julia.
>> ________________________________________
>> From: trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu
>> [trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 1:04 AM
>> To: trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
>> Subject: TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 71, Issue 4
>>
>> Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
>>        trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>        https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>        trnsys-users-request@cae.wisc.edu
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>        trnsys-users-owner@cae.wisc.edu
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
>> "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: "Emiliano Casati - 3ME" <E.I.M.Casati@tudelft.nl>
>> To: <trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu>
>> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:19:58 +0100
>> Subject: [TRNSYS-users] input file
>>
>> Hi to everybody!
>>
>> I don’t understand why, for certain projects, I can’t open the input
>> file,
>> the message is “the system cannot find the path specified”.
>>
>> Where should I find the input file?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot
>>
>>
>>
>> ec
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: "Timothy McDowell" <mcdowell@tess-inc.com>
>> To: "Thibaut VITTE" <thibaut.vitte@h3c-energies.fr>,
>> trnsys-users@cae.wisc.edu
>> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 07:23:05 -0500 (CDT)
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] GenOpt optimization: problem for the
>> secondgeneration after 5 simulations
>> This type of error in GenOpt is usually caused by an error in the TRNSYS
>> simulation.  You need to check the *.lst file for the TRNSYS run to see
>> what the TRNSYS error is.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> Timothy McDowell
>> Executive Vice President
>> Thermal Energy System Specialists, LLC
>> 22 N. Carroll St, Suite 370
>> Madison, WI 53703
>> Phone: 608-274-2577
>> Fax: 608-278-1475
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Thibaut VITTE" <thibaut.vitte@h3c-energies.fr>
>> Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 5:27
>> Subject:Re: [TRNSYS-users] GenOpt optimization: problem for the
>> secondgeneration after 5 simulations
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    Dear Alexis,
>>
>>    I've had a similar error when I used Genopt. I've had several
>>    components tracked by a "trace" command that made my list file
>>    enormous (more than 100Mb) and genopt could'nt handle that amount of
>>    data.
>>
>>    Just my 2cents.
>>
>>    Thibaut
>>    --
>>
>>
>> .bodyclass      @page { size: 8.5in 11in; margin-top: 0.7874in;
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                  Le futur maîtrisé
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>              Thibaut VITTE
>>              Docteur - Ingénieur Energies
>>              Mail : thibaut.vitte@h3c-energies.fr
>>
>>              -----------------------------
>>              H3C-énergies
>>              35, chemin du vieux Chêne - 38240 MEYLAN
>>              Tél : 04 76 41 88 66 – Fax : 04 76 41 28
>>                  94
>>              www.h3c-energies.fr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>      Afin de contribuer au respect de l'environnement,
>>        merci de n'imprimer ce message qu'en cas de nécessité.
>>      In order to respect the environment, please don't
>>        print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
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>>
>>
>> ----- End of original message -----
>>
>>
>>
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> listTRNSYS-users@cae.wisc.eduhttps://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI  53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley@tess-inc.com
> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>